1. mully

March 7, 2009 @ 4:22 pm

“What this bill will effectively do is shut us down,” said Dr. Daniel Shapiro, a fertility doctor in Atlanta.

Well let me get my violin out and play a dirge for you Dr. Shapiro. God knows the American public wouldnt want to be responsible for curtailing your already expensive lifestyle and scale you back to what seems a more normal way of living similar to what the rest of us are now forced to do. By all means, lets NOT pass this bill in order to let YOU continue your country club, golf clubs, high end cars, boats, mansions etc. while all of us PAY for people who you and many of the rest of the medical profession deem in need of multiple children. In todays world who really NEEDS multiple births?

Lets re-consider this bill so that all women out there, who are as deranged as Nadya Suleman seems to be, still have the opportunity to deliver litters of children and then wander around with their hands outstretched looking for ways to pay the medical bills, the food bills, the housing bills, the education bills ad nauseaum.

Certainly, we, the American taxpayers, who pay for everything these days, want even MORE people like Suleman to suck the already deflated system dry.

If this bill were being presented in Ohio, where I live, you can bet your sweet, no doubt Mercedes driving ass, I would back it!

2. Robin

March 7, 2009 @ 5:37 pm

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_11845006?nclick_check=1

4. Jessica

March 7, 2009 @ 6:58 pm

To your point Kris, what’s the difference between implanting 27 embryos, hoping that a couple take than selective reduction anyway? If one is going to argue on religious grounds, couldn’t the opposition make an argument that NEITHER was God’s plan. It isn’t God’s plan to be implanted through science with a zillion embryos.

5. Lauren

March 7, 2009 @ 7:13 pm

That’s the same thing that bothers me, Jessica. I know, I know, God gave man free will and he allows man to progress through the years with science and technology, but you can’t have it both ways. It’s either God’s will - or man’s will.

7. mully

March 7, 2009 @ 9:29 pm

To me, if you decide to do a procedure that you know might result in multiple births and thats a given if you decide to have multiple embryos implanted in your uterus, then you are already accepting one of two facts. You are either aware of the implications of selective reduction and are ok with it or, and this is the problem I have with multiple births, you are willing to risk many babies being born and as I have said before, unless you are Bill Gates or Oprah Winfrey or someone with a pretty damned big bank balance, youre gonna need help. If that help comes in the form of family and close friends, fine by me, but when that helps starts digging into my pocket, Ive got a problem and as well I should cos no one in this world today needs 4 or more babies born at once.

If you are unfortunately unable to conceive on your own, Im sorry for you. But there are alternatives to laying out a litter of babies all at once. You have the option of adoption, which answers more than just YOUR problem. If you want to try for IVF or IUI and spend thousands over a course of many treatments, thats your choice, but I feel very strongly that it should be with the understanding of the above law, so that the rest of the country doesnt end up taking care of your 4,5,6,7 and now 8 children simply because you just had to do it this way and because you couldnt handle the curve ball life threw at you, which while unfortunate, isnt unusual.

People everyday in this world are born with problems that were through no fault of their own. They learn to adapt and to live in the world despite their issues. I see no difference in a woman who has infertility issues. You CAN learn to accept your unfortunate situation and there is an alternative as I mentioned above that not only give you the chance to become a parent, but also takes a child from an otherwise bleak existence into a loving home.

8. GrandmafrmKs.

March 8, 2009 @ 12:06 am

Amen Mully, I to feel sorry for any woman who can not have a baby, but I feel sorrier for babies that are born with all kids of birth defects and to parents who can not afford the medical attention they will need,
As you said there are alternatives to being able to have a baby even if you can not do it from your own body, but as a curve ball that life hands out to so many that are born with all kinds of dis-abilities, they learn to pull them selves up, many hold down jobs, which means alot of dis-abled workers along with us are paying for ppl who want to have multi-births, knowing full well they can not afford them, And in no way is God in that plan.

9. Jessica

March 8, 2009 @ 8:17 am

Kris said: I didn’t quite intend on bringing religion/god’s will into this,

I apologize - it wasn’t my intent to bait you into speaking about religion.

My questions were rhetorical and general and not directed to you specifically.

10. Cin

March 8, 2009 @ 8:58 am

I love where this conversation has gone so that I can get on MY soap box! Thank you all for leading it here…

I am 40 years old and have 2 wonderful kids, boy & girl, that I adopted 5 years ago. I adopted (AMERICAN CHILDREN not foreign babies) because when I was a young girl I learned about orphans… Kids who lived lives with no parents and no one to love them the way my parents loved me. Throughout life my passion for them grew and I announced to my best friend in 10th grade that I was going to build my family around children who might not otherwise ever have a family.

Coincidentally, when I was 19 I learned I was born with a flawed female system including a missing uterus. Wonderful women including my Mom, my Step Mom, and a dear friend, all offered to have my baby for me. I recognized all the options around me and never considered any of them.

1)I am not very religious beyond believing in God and loving and appreciating all his gifts. But I felt that if I was INTENDED to have a baby, my body would have been equipped to do so.

2)I felt there were so many sad and suffering children out there that to ignore them and bring another life in its place could only be considered selfish.

I realize as I become older and wiser, though, that it is not just selfishness that prevents women from considering adoption, but fear. Maybe you’ll never bond or what if they are sickly, angry, or disturbed?

All the same possibilities exist when you have your own baby… would you love him any less or want to trade him out? Of course not! Kids in the system are the same as all other kids. You face the same joy and fears and challenges with your birth baby as you would with an adopted child.

Another fear is that the love you feel for an adopted child will not be as strong as if you had given birth to her.

My kids were 3 and 7 when we adopted them. (9 and 13 now) They are both the joy of my life and the thorn in my roses. There are times I miss the old, skinnier, prettier, carefree, financially abundant, childless me. But mostly I cannot fully breathe without my children beside me. A sleepover at a friend’s house means no matter how much I enjoy the private time with Hubby… dinner, margarita, R rated movie… there is a nagging ache in my heart because I cannot reach out and hug them at that moment.

That’s about the same as all other moms feel, right?

Listen, I don’t blame any woman for not sharing my passion for local adoptions and the needs of foster kids as they “age out”, but I do have a fire for informing people how important it is and how fulfilling it will be. HOWEVER I am disgusted by Octomom and anyone like her. She already had children of her own so to “manufacture” more kids, especially when so many others are already in need, is appalling.

It is a touchy situation to support limiting embryos, how many children a woman can have, etc. But how else do we manage this problem? A person has to undergo classes and testing to obtain a license to carry a hand gun. Is it so wrong to impose some standards when a woman wants to “manufacture” babies? Don’t we at least owe it to the future child that s/he not be born to a lunatic?

Other than that, I cannot stress enough for every woman “trying just one more time for a girl” or facing a challenge with pregnancy, to remember that there are beautiful children on this planet who are looking for someone just like you.

11. Jessica

March 8, 2009 @ 9:14 am

Cin said: My kids were 3 and 7 when we adopted them. (9 and 13 now) They are both the joy of my life and the thorn in my roses. There are times I miss the old, skinnier, prettier, carefree, financially abundant, childless me. But mostly I cannot fully breathe without my children beside me. A sleepover at a friend’s house means no matter how much I enjoy the private time with Hubby… dinner, margarita, R rated movie… there is a nagging ache in my heart because I cannot reach out and hug them at that moment.

OMG Cin. That actually made me tear up. Your description of your love for your children is absolutely beautiful and eloquent.

BTW, I didn’t know that your kids were adopted! I always wanted to adopt too. If I did want to try for a girl, that’s how I would want to do it, by adopting and not rolling the dice. Although I don’t know if you can pick gender if you adopt, can you?

12. Cin

March 8, 2009 @ 9:29 am

Although I don’t know if you can pick gender if you adopt, can you?

Yes Jess you can! When the social worker did our home evaluation my husband told her that we just wanted to start with one child, under the age of three. While walking her out the door I whispered, “Bring me the first sibling group you come across that needs us.” LOL. Those babies and toddlers have no trouble finding homes but the aging sib groups needed me darn it! So 6 months later, in walked 3 year old Sari and 7 year old Drew. We couldn’t have asked for a more perfect situation.

Thanks for the nice comments, by the way. I just want peeps to know how beautiful and strong adoption love can be.

13. mully

March 8, 2009 @ 9:54 am

Cin: You are to be congratulated (probably not the right word) for your ability to see past yourself and realize that thru adoption you gave 2 kids a chance at a normal life, one which we all know might not have happened. But in doing so, you enriched your life as well. I have long believed that adopting children vs giving birth to your own is merely a biology thing.

Love is love and it really doesnt matter when you hold them in your arms and kiss them goodnight, how they came into your life.

Thank you for some poignant moments and an insightful posting.

14. Adoptive Grandma

March 11, 2009 @ 11:27 pm

Everything must be done in the best interest of the children. Absolutely there must be limitations to the number of embryos implanted in a woman. I really think all prospective parents need to go through a home study just like all the adoptive parents do. Adopting can be expensive and not everyone is not cut out to be an adoptive parent. I adopted one child from foster care and one from an overseas orphanage. I am the grandmother of identical twins and quite frankly, two babies at one time is plenty. It was enough for me to deal with taking two kids to occupational therapy, speech therapy, tutoring and everything else. My kids are very high functioning and all the effort was worth it. I watched my daughter struggle with her her high risk pregnancy. There are enough special needs kids in the world. Why would society want to allow medical procedures that increase the possibility of high risk pregnancy and disabled children? Sure they look cute as babies, but wait until they get in school and their learning disabilities and behavior problems erupt. My children were mild compared to other children I know and there were times I was physically, emotionally and financially exhausted. The way I helped my kids was through a second mortgage and I still have that stupid second mortgage to this day!

Yes Congress need to get involved in this ethical issue and limit the number of embryos implanted.

And absolutely people in the United States ignore mental illness. Then they are shocked by Octomom or the Columbine high school shootings. We finally got mental health parity when it was attached to the bail-out package that President Bush got passed. Over 20 years to sneak in mental health parity. No wonder we have people like Octomom out there.

Yes, the government has to step in and make laws to protect people from themselves and of course for the BEST INTEREST OF CHILDREN.