Recruiting Opinions
Posted
March 12, 2008 at
9:14 am by
Rita
Damn you Rob Riggle!
So, the other night, dh and I were watching The Daily Show, and there was a hilarious segment with Rob Riggle about Code Pink protesting a Marine recruiting office that opened in Berkeley.
Ironically, this was the second time I had been exposed to people having a problem with military recruiting. The other time was a character in a novel I was reading by Tawni O’Dell, called Sister Mine. This was an issue that had previously flown under my liberal radar. Now, I had to give it attention.
Now, since the Daily Show segment was very funny, and the Code Pink women looked like idiots, and Rob Riggle was articulate and smart, my knee-jerk reaction was to side with him. But, there was a nagging voice inside me, asking, Is this OK? Or is it taking advantage of desperate young people, like pushing drugs on campus? So, I went a-researching.
First off, I have to discard anything I read about college campuses. The “kids” in college are really adults. If we can trust them to vote for our government representatives, then we need to also trust that they won’t be swayed by shiny pamphlets and cool uniforms. We have to believe that whatever values we instilled in them will come to the surface when they’re making these decisions about their future.
But, high school? I have a different opinion. In my searches, I found these articles, which illustrate a clause in the No Child Left Behind document, mandating that high schools release contact information about students for military recruitment purposes, and that the military has a database collected about our students’ information, for recruitment purposes. This is more than just housing an office or setting up a table on career day, this is an aggressive, all out organized effort to get kids to sign up for the military, sometimes making a commitment while they’re still minors through a delayed entry program (although this is not a legally binding commitment).
I am not in favor of this war. I’ve been opposed to it since it started, when it was unfashionable and unpatriotic to be against it. Now a lot of others have switched sides, so it’s not so alienating to hold this opinion. But, I am in favor of our military. Specifically, an all-volunteer military. I am grateful to our men and women in service for their unwavering commitment to keeping our country secure. I have no ill will towards our soldiers. If anything I feel guilty as an American for sending these people, who fight and defend upon command, to risk their lives for something that a lot of us believe have questionable ethics behind it. So, if I respect them for fighting an honest war, I respect them even more for fighting a questionable one. It’s not their fault for being there, it’s OUR fault for putting them there.
I also realize that to keep an all-volunteer military, we need to have volunteers to serve in it. We need to recruit members, people who have these admirable qualities and are willing to risk their lives for others. I understand that and respect it.
I felt I needed to say all that before I could move on to the real topic. See, this isn’t about my beliefs on the war of the military per se, this is a parenting blog, so things need to be viewed with parent-glasses on. How I feel about this war or the military as a citizen may not be the same as how I feel about them as a parent.
I’m not OK with the government having a database on my children for any purpose. I’m not OK with the military having contact information on my children for recruitment purposes. I’m not OK with military recruiters planning lunches with my kids because they fit a profile. I’m not OK with a non-legal binding contract (which my kids may feel obligated to hold to anyway), being signed when they’re seventeen. At 18, they’re released upon the world, and the world released upon them and if they engage in unsafe activities like using drugs, having promiscuous sex, reckless driving, or joining the Marines when we’re in a war, then that’s out of my control. Because while as a citizen, I appreciate the military and honor its members, as a mother, I don’t want my kid to join up. I guess I see that as akin to the priesthood. It’s an admirable career, one that demands respect and offers many opportunities that they might otherwise be denied, but please, oh please, not my son. The difference is, that the Vatican isn’t aggressively recruiting my son for the priesthood (not overtly anyway), whereas the military is using state-of-the art hard sell techniques.
So, while I’m perfectly fine with a military recruiting office being opened up anywhere, and I’m fine with people protesting it, and I’m fine with people making those protesters look like idiots on the most popular comedy show in America, I am not fine with the other things I found in my digging. Maybe you feel differently, and I’m OK with that, too. Thank you Rob Riggle.
Tags: Berkley, Code-Pink, comedy, marines, military-recruiting, military-recruiting-in-high-school, no-child-left-behind, Parenting, Rob-Riggle, The-Daily-Show, war |
19 Responses to “Recruiting Opinions”
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1. Kristy said:
March 12, 2008 @ 10:07 am
We pass out parental Opt-Out forms at registration so that parents can request that their kids’ information not be given to recruiters. I always encourage the parents to read and sign the form if they don’t want recruiters calling their child.
2. Rita said:
March 12, 2008 @ 10:18 am
3. Jessica said:
March 12, 2008 @ 11:25 am
There is absolutely nothing shameful or wrong with joining the military after high-school. For many, it’s an opportunity to better themselves.
My father joined the military right out of highschool (Vietnam) and is pretty damn successful as a result.
My brother’s in the military and some people see it as a job and a duty.
Every male has to register for the draft, even if there isn’t one or never will be one. (I think women should have to register too, but that’s just me.)
If parents don’t want their kids joining the military, then they should talk to them about “better” options, but some kids aren’t aware of what the military has to offer and in the end, we NEED the military and we need to recruit. It’s in everybody’s interest, even those who oppose the war. A strong military is critical to the well being of it’s citizens. Freedom isn’t always free.
Our soldiers are some the bravest people on the planet and I think it would be an honor to have their bravery and talent! And if that’s what one or both of my son’s wants to do, then I will support them. I hope they go to college first, but ultimately, it’s their choice.
The majority of politicians are former military people. There are many pathways that can be gained from military service.
4. Rita said:
March 12, 2008 @ 12:19 pm
I do think that the recruitment practices in high school are really questionable. I didn’t know about any of those practices and regardless of what the kids are being recruited for, I thin that having personal information and being given contact information upon request is not good ethics.
5. julymom said:
March 12, 2008 @ 6:31 pm
So, you’re saying people should only join the military during times of peace? What happens if they do and then we go to war (one you support or not)? My dh joined the Army 12 years ago (this month) and we weren’t at war. Did we know it was a possibility? Of course, but who could have ever predicted this?
The military is stretched incredibly thin (and it was prior to the war thanks to the draw downs in the early 90’s) and needs people desperately. If they find some HS students who are willing to join and help out, what’s wrong with that? The recruiters (who are not bad guys) cannot make someone sign up and the can’t do it at 17 without parental consent. The recruiters will go over their options and of course they will try to get them to join, but they can’t make them do it if they don’t want to. If a recruiter calls, the parent can request that their child not be contacted again.
And FYI, being in the military during times of peace is not cake walk. You still have to pick up and move frequently (often with very little notice), they still deploy (Korea is a year long unaccompanied tour), they still work incredibly long hours and they train constantly, often months at a time away from home.
6. Rita said:
March 12, 2008 @ 6:55 pm
The military is stretched incredibly thin (and it was prior to the war thanks to the draw downs in the early 90’s) and needs people desperately. If they find some HS students who are willing to join and help out, what’s wrong with that? The recruiters (who are not bad guys) cannot make someone sign up and the can’t do it at 17 without parental consent. The recruiters will go over their options and of course they will try to get them to join, but they can’t make them do it if they don’t want to. If a recruiter calls, the parent can request that their child not be contacted again.
And FYI, being in the military during times of peace is not cake walk. You still have to pick up and move frequently (often with very little notice), they still deploy (Korea is a year long unaccompanied tour), they still work incredibly long hours and they train constantly, often months at a time away from home.[/quote]
Oh, I know it’s not a cake-walk even during peace time. It’s a very challenging career, for the person in the military and their family.
I am eternally grateful for men and women in the military and especially grateful for those who sign up now. They feel a sense of duty and obligation that is incredibly admirable. However, I can’t say that I’d like my kids to join up during war time. It IS a risky choice, they are choosing to put their lives on the line for their country. Regardless of how I, personally feel about the war.
And, no, recruiters can’t make a person sign up if they don’t want to. But, they can be misleading, making the person sign up expecting one thing and then they get there and it’s something entirely different. Private Benjamin, anyone (”See, I did join the army, but I joined a *different* army. I joined the one with the condos and the private rooms.”) As long as it’s all honest and up-front, and the people being recruited are adults (so no recruiting of kids under 18), then I’m cool with it. But, this idea of the pentagon having a database on our kids, delayed enrollment, and high-tech, aggressive targeting of specific kids, I think is wrong.
7. Kristy said:
March 13, 2008 @ 12:34 pm
If recruiters made no difference and had no influence on high school kids, they wouldn’t be recruiting in schools. It’s not like there’s a big danger of kids wanting to sign up and not being able to. They recruit in schools because they know they can influence kids who otherwise probably wouldn’t sign up.
As a teacher, I don’t think school exists to feed the military. And as a parent, I don’t want my child to be killed in war. Period. I don’t care how just or unjust said war may be. In this case I don’t believe we are fighting a just war, but even if we were, I wouldn’t want my child or any of my students to join the military right now and risk dying. I know that’s selfish. But you know what, the war will end and in a few years the events that caused it will be forgotten except as a footnote in history, but those soldiers will still be dead.
8. Allison said:
March 13, 2008 @ 2:47 pm
What bugs me about recruiting in the school is this:
When I was a Freshman in the Junior High, we had a Teacher’s Aide in gym class who was a Senior. He was cute and popular. All the girls had a crush on him, and all of the boys thought he was cool.
Fast Forward 3 years, and now we were Seniors. The Army had a booth set up in the High School outside of the lunchroom. And what do you know, here’s Mr. Popular passing out brochures to all of the boys my age who wanted so badly to be just like him, and flirting with all the girls he knew were in love with him. “It’s awesome. I love it. You should totally join. You might get stationed with me. Blah. Blah. Blah”
They couldn’t have had a better pull with the kids had G.I. Joe himself been there.
I just felt like it was a sneaky tactic, and I saw right through it.
But let me just say, I’m not bashing the military itself or the soliders themselves, just some of the tactics used to recruit students…..
9. Allison said:
March 13, 2008 @ 2:49 pm
P.S. Let me just add, that as I posted this, I noticed there are 4 DIFFERENT MILITARY RECRUITING ADS on top of this page.
????????????????????
10. Jessica said:
March 13, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
This conversation is so depressing.
Having a brother in Afganistan, well, I just wish people would be more appreciative and respectful. It’s not about one’s politics, it’s about a very commendable job and opportunity that many kids may not otherwise have access to.
11. Rita said:
March 13, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
I also have to say that I appreciate those who sign up because it is keeping a draft at bay. That may be a shitty way to think, but if I’m going to be honest, I have to admit that it crosses my mind when this topic comes up.
We need a military, and I wonder sometimes though if having a mandatory military service, like they do in some European countries, would change our (the general US population’s) view on war. I wonder if we would have been so eager to support this war if ALL of our kids were forced to face the risk of fighting at one time or another. That crosses my mind, too.
As far as the military giving some kids opportunities that they might not otherwise have access to, again, if that’s true and it’s a real choice that the kids make (when they’re grown up), then that’s fair. But, if they’re misled by recruiters, made to believe that they really don’t have other options, then that’s not OK. Here’s an interesting article I found about “counter recruiters” that didn’t make it into my blog entry. These are people who go to schools and approach kids with information about different opportunities for them than the military. I think that’s fair, too. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-07-counter-recruiters_x.htm
You don’t find me defending the Catholic church often, but I will say this–I stand by my comparison of military service and the priesthood (or joining a convent). But, to become a priest or a nun, it takes YEARS of preparation and counseling before the commitment is made. It’s not an impulsive decision, where you sign a legally binding contract after reading a brochure. They don’t recruit kids in school and try to convince them to join up, or tell them that their futures will be limited if they don’t (”Hey, when else are you maybe gonna get to go to Rome???”). It’s the opposite of military recruitment, they send you away and tell you no, you need to think about it and then come back and talk. Interested parties need to pursue the job, not the other way around, and I respect THAT.
12. Navywife AND mother of a SEAL said:
March 13, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
I have spent 20+ years as a navywife,I also have a 17 going to be 18 in 20 days that signed up on the delayed entry program and now has qualified for the Seal program. We have never told our 4 children they have to serve. I have told them i would stand behind them in what ever they choose. My son’s CHOICE was to enter the military and the strive to make all the test that is required to become a Seal. I live in a town where they think they are stereo typing people to recruit when the joke is on them. All four of my children have trust funds well over 100k and can go with the money and they grades to ANY school they want, he just chose to give back to the country that has given him so many freedoms. I am daily questioned why I back him up in this time of war. And wether I am for the war or against I am PROUD of my son and will back him and my other children in what they choose to do.
13. Rita said:
March 13, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
It sounds like he made a well-informed choice, and that’s great. I would support my children if they made a thorough and well-thought out choice, too, even if I didn’t necessarily agree with it. Our kids, when they’re adults, will make choices that we don’t always feel the best about, or wouldn’t necessarily make for them (I’m speaking from my own POV on this subject, not yours), but we support them. Would you support him if he thought as long and hard about joining a hippie commune (just to bring about an example of something that may NOT necessarily be in line with your own personal values)?
I do want to ask though, did he initiate the process of joining up, or was it in response to being approached by a recruiter?
14. Navywife AND mother of a SEAL said:
March 13, 2008 @ 7:24 pm
He initiated joining. And though what ever he wanted to pruse in life i would back him. Funny you would ask this as he plays the guitar like Jimmy Hendrix and was waiting for the rock star people to knock on our door. I supported and listend to his awesome guitar playing everyday.
15. Rita said:
March 13, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
16. Navywife AND mother of a SEAL said:
March 13, 2008 @ 8:42 pm
Being a navywife I do know what recruting is all about. He had a friend that went to sign up for the Army. We told him not to go unless my husband was with him so that they would not take advantage of him and of course he did go by himself. He signed up for one thing and now is in a totally different part of the Army. Now i am not saying ALL recruiters are like this but you do have a quote to come up with and your career does depend on you coming up with your quote. We where very lucky because we did not have to do recruiting duty but it could be very morally corrupt. But so can other jobs i.e. used car sales men or really for that matter any job you must be moral which is something our country is lacking right now. It is all about education or the lack there of. It is not a life for all nor should you be looked down upon if you do not chose the military but you should not be looked down on FOR chosing it either. Our teens nowadays, have a strong will and do what they want. I for one struggle with my kids are the only ones that have curfew let alone several of my daughters friends have boyfriends that have apartments on their own and they stay over with moms permission. So to say they prey on the uneducated or the niave i think is wrong. Because these teenagers are very street smart. But that being said there are alot of young men who think it is neat to join to “kill” legally. And that they do not understand the ramification of war and that is where the adults come in. I know that we had alot of conversations on what is expected just in the military let alone in special forces with our son. I would never ever advise anyone to sign up unless they have someone the trust to tell them the truth. And in the time of war, well the saying is true War is hell.
17. Navywife AND mother of a SEAL said:
March 13, 2008 @ 8:55 pm
*L* I apologize for typos..i have cold and pink eye..which means my kids won’t use my computer..*L* but i can’t type without my eye watering..so please for give my typos.
18. Kristy said:
March 14, 2008 @ 10:30 am
I do appreciate and respect people in the military. I know that they are doing their jobs, and that it’s a job most of us are very lucky not to have to do. My feeling that the government uses and abuses the military for questionable causes does not make me blame the soldiers or fail to understand the sacrifices they and their families make.
The problem I have with recruitment has to do with the age of the *babies* being hounded and shown a rosy picture of military life at a very tenuous point in their lives.
19. Navywife AND mother of a SEAL said:
March 14, 2008 @ 5:12 pm
Kristy-
I think you are absolutely right. They do show it as a rosey picture. I can remember when my son hated to move all the time and the emotional termoil that it caused. that is why i was kind of shocked when he said he wanted to join. But I will also share that the military is your family sort of speaking. They take care of each other. I remember my daughter was born on guam and we had 7 typhoons in 2 years. Rank and file did not matter, everyones well being did. People stopped at the navy exchanged, barber shop and talked with each other. We greeted each other and knew each other even if we did not personally know each other we knew what it felt like. When my three had chicken pox when they where very young i was greeted at the hospital by a young sailor who knew that the Nimitz was out to sea and i had three under the age of 5 to bring to the doctor. As he carried the youngest in the car seat and i had the hands of the other two he told me he had never had chicken pox. I was absolutely amazed. He knew he could catch it and it could be very harmful as an adult but as he put it “my brother in arms is gone there for I am here to help”. I really miss that part. I live in Northwest Indiana very close to Gary *murder capitol of America* People here just go about their business with out any humanity. It might be that its only where I live. And other parts are not like like that. And yes you are absolutely right about hounding. I have seen it. But I have been hounded by window sales men too. That is why anyone that is “thinking” of military life really really needs to have someone they “trust” really explain it. My son knows that our goverment is morally corrupt for the most part. But he believes that everyone if you stand up can make a difference and that is what is so wonderful about this nation. We have the right of free will/speech. Believe me..*L* the recruiters in my town know me and know that I personally know the ones that have signed up and i have, really my husband, has had a talk with them. So much so I got a beloved “SEAL” shirt. As for my son, nobody BS’ed him maybe only because they knew he knew more than the average. But I have seen over the twenty years recruiters and i must say they have gotten alot more moral than they used to be.