Justice served
Posted
August 24, 2007 at
6:39 pm by
Jessica
John Couey, a formally convicted sex offender who abducted a 9 year old girl in Florida in 2005 was sentenced to death today. Couey raped Jessica Lunsford over several days and then buried her alive.
Jessica was found bound by speaker wire and with evidence of a desperate attempt to save her life as two holes were poked in the plastic bags he put her in. Blood from the continous raping was found in Couey’s home — she was buried in his his yard. It has been reported that Couey asked the child to get into the grave he dug for her and that all she asked was if she could take her stuffed animal dolphin with her.
So, I must ask, how can anyone oppose the death penalty in a cases such as these? How??
Tags: Criminal Justice, death penalty, Jessica Lunsford, John Couey, John Evander Couey, pedophiles, sex offenders
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28 Responses to “Justice served”
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1. Cara said:
August 24, 2007 @ 7:00 pm | Quote
I’m in Texas and we, of course, have the death penalty here. Throughout various times in my life, I’ve flip-flopped on my opinion of the death penalty.
Practically speaking, it’s cheaper to keep them alive in prison than it is to execute them thanks to the terribly lengthy appeals process. Rehabilitation-wise, there’s certainly no hope for him. Deterrant-wise, it doesn’t really deter anyone because stuff like this continues to happen even with the death penalty in place.
But when it comes right down to it, people like this man deserve to die. I’m sorry, but he does.
2. Petulant Pixie said:
August 24, 2007 @ 8:34 pm | Quote
I just don’t believe in saying someone deserves to die. My brain just doesn’t wrap around that. If they are a direct threat to me or someone near me, I have no problem pulling the trigger myself. But, to weigh evidence and then decide that because of previous actions, they should die, that just doesn’t sit right with me.
I can see a sense of relief with people like this, in saying that now that they’re off the planet at least THIS guy can’t do any more harm. So, that’s one fucked up freak gone and what, ten zillion more to worry about?
3. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 6:50 am | Quote
So, you believe someone deserves to die if it’s self defense, but if they actually succeed, then they should be rewarded?
See, I have no problem establishing very clear boundaries for murdering, raping pedophiles. When someone callously tortures and kills a child, I draw the line right there. Excuses or pleas on behalf of the monster, fall on deaf ears. I just refuse to entertain or debate that torturing pedophiles value in society.
4. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 9:33 am | Quote
Well, you’re turning it around, saying that because I don’t believe in executing someone it means I support what they’re doing. I think it is WRONG to kill. Period. I don’t think that we should be taking other people’s lives. But, in a case where NOT killing someone would result in the IMMEDIATE death of someone else (self defense), then you have to do what you have to do.
Rewards, justice, value, none of these things fit into my explanation. A person isn’t “rewarded” in my explanation, they just aren’t killed. I don’t believe they have value in society, I just don’t believe in killing them. Justice can be served without killing. Bloodthirst and violence doesn’t have to equal bloodthirst and violence in return.
5. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 10:45 am | Quote
Well, no you don’t.
You said previously if someone were trying to kill you or your family, you would kill in self defense, right?
So, you believe it is right to kill if your family is in danger or under imminent threat, but if that someone is successful in actually killing you or your children, then they don’t deserve to be killed. (???)
6. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 10:56 am | Quote
Oh, please, you’re just trying to be difficult. I followed up with the next sentence explaining that. Really, it’s not hard to understand. Nobody DESERVES to be killed–that means me or my kids, or any innocent person in danger either. So if someone is going to kill them, then I will prevent that from happening in whatever way necessary. That is totally different than being totally removed from danger, pondering the evidence and calmly coming to a conclusion that someone who is already removed from society by being locked away NOW should be killed.
7. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 12:06 pm | Quote
So, if it isn’t happening to you, then it’s not okay to kill someone for torturing and killing a child, but if it happens to you, it’s okay for you to do it yourself?
I’m really trying to understand because to me it just seems totally illogical and hypocritical. If it’s wrong, it’s wrong.
8. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 1:30 pm | Quote
If it’s done to STOP someone who is IMMEDIATELY going to hurt/kill someone, then it’s necessary. If it’s done after the fact, then it’s revenge. If you walk in on someone who is brandishing a weapon and appears as though they intend to use it to severely hurt/injure another person, then you need to use whatever force necessary to stop that action. If that force necessary results in the death of the attacker, then that was justified. It stopped the harm of another, innocent person.
If a person HAS attacked another, then I do not feel it is right to deem the attacker to die. It’s done, over, there is nothing that can be done to stop the crime that has already been committed. There are other ways to serve justice.
9. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 2:15 pm | Quote
Yeah, when it comes to raping and killing small children, that’s not how I roll and remain unapologetic that child killers and rapists should receive nothing short of what the maximum sentencing offers in each state. In fact, in many states, I think the laws should be stricter.
Zero tolerance for pedophile murderers.
As to when it’s okay to kill someone and when it isn’t, I don’t buy your logic. I believe societies are only as good as how they treat, protect, prevent and provide retribution for their child victims.
This debate will do nothing to enlighten me because I see no gray in area of child raping murderers. If anyone deserves to die, it’s them. I am not going to be so open minded about it. I also refuse to grant them to point of view that compares their humanity and rights to anybody else or any other criminal for that matter. To me, it’s not the same and it shouldn’t be.
10. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 4:07 pm | Quote
I don’t see it as being about them (the criminals) at all. I see it as a moral issue for US, those of us who determine what justice means. I don’t want anyone’s blood on my hands–even by proxy (by voting in someone who defends the death penalty). In the case of self defense, then someone’s hand are going to get dirty anyway, so it’s better to be the criminal than an innocent victim. There is no winning in a situation like that.
I’m looking at it from a different angle, Jess, and that may be why you’re having a hard time with what I’m saying. I’m not looking at the criminal and judging what they deserve or don’t deserve. I’m looking at those of us who are non-criminals and finding a way to serve justice in a civilized manner, which I believe can be done.
I have no gray area regarding people who hurt children either. The way we’re doing things surely isn’t doing anything to prevent it though. We know that convicted pedophiles are not rehabilitated. We know that executing them does not prevent others from the same crime. We DO know that the majority of pedophiles were victims themselves. We DO know that most pedophiles exhibit deviant behavior as children and teens. Maybe we should invest in catching them before they become people who hurt children. Maybe we should have a better system for evaluating and treating deviant behavior in teens (ya think????) and maybe at the age of 9 or 10 or 11 these guys could be rehabilitated before they actually act out on living people. But, that would cost a lot of money. We don’t want to give money in our taxes for programs like that, which could very likely prevent a whole slew of child victims. We’d rather just let the crimes happen and then take glee in having the criminals killed after the fact. That’s our civilization.
11. DrBookgrrl said:
August 25, 2007 @ 4:24 pm | Quote
Pixie said: “If it’s done to STOP someone who is IMMEDIATELY going to hurt/kill someone, then it’s necessary. If it’s done after the fact, then it’s revenge.”
But I disagree. It’s justice. That’s why we have a court system. Frankly, though, this guy doesn’t just deserve death - he deserves “the eye for an eye” treatment.
12. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 4:30 pm | Quote
I don’t believe it is justice, and neither do all the millions of people who oppose the death penatly. I believe that justice and revenge are two different things.
13. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 6:18 pm | Quote
Zilch proof exists that teen programs or early intervention works in eliminating or curbing pedophilia. There is no cure for it. It’s a severe mental disorder, one that even drugs have shown to be ineffective. The only way to eliminate it, is to remove those people from society, because if they haven’t offended yet, it’s only a matter of when they do. Pedophiles have impulse control issues that even chemical castration will not prevent.
The big problem isn’t with juvenile delinquents, but that the statistics show that a child molester will have molested dozens of children before they are actually caught or before they are paroled. We need to protect children that come forward. Society needs to let children know that they are more important than a child molester and that they need not be ashamed, or worry that the molester will get away with it. We need 1 strike policies within our laws and sentencing. We need to fund legislature like Megan’s Law and Jessica’s Law and John Walsh’s recently passed legislation.
Child education on grooming techniques used by predators and how to fight back if one is abducted would also go a long way too, IMO.
You’re accusation that “we” would rather see someone commit the crime and be executed because “we” get off on execution is nothing more than a straw man.
But I’m certainly not going to advocate for John Couey or object to his sentencing. It is a black and while issue for me.
Ultimately, I’d like to see child molestation stopped for good. I think one child raped is one too many.
Zero tolerance for pedophiles who molest or exploit children. Zero.
When a child is molested, often times the cycle is repeated with that child, so we need tougher sentencing — 1 strike laws, so that the statistics go down instead of allowing repeat offenders to go free and molest again.
Lock them up for good or execute them. There are only two options.
14. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 7:07 pm | Quote
I’m not advocating for any child molesters, I’ve said that time and time again. My opposition to the death penalty has nothing to do with helping the criminals at all.
Part of the problem with the ineffectiveness of rehabilitating these people is that it happens after they’ve already hurt someone. I’m talking about very early intervention, where they are treated as soon as they exhibit any deviant behaviors. That is effective. Chemical castration doesn’t work because this isn’t a sexual issue. It’s a power and control issue. And people who become sex offenders exhibit clear symptoms very early on. I find it ironic that you are so in support of killing a grown man when he hurts and kills a little girl, but mock the system when they react to boys who hurt little girls (the boys reinacting the Jackass behavior). Those boys are sending up huge red flags. But, ignore it now, write it off as boys will be boys and then be all confused if they grow up and become true sex offenders.
I believe that justice is about removing harmful people from society (which can be done without executing them) AND taking what we know about people who commit crimes to PREVENT future crimes from happening. Doing nothing proactive isn’t justice. Reacting to violence with violence retroactively isn’t justice either.
15. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 7:43 pm | Quote
First of all, pedophiles don’t want to be helped. They like lusting after children. They think it’s great.
Secondly, please cite the research that shows that early intervention with pedophiles works or that early intervention with juvenile delinquents prevents pedophilia. That would be a new one on me.
Pedophilia is not manifested the same way as those who are violent against women. Raping women is a power and control issue, and even though pedophilia is to a certain extent, the pedophile sees a child as an object, as un-human, a vehicle for sexual arousal. Most men that rape women don’t do it purely for sexual arousal.
Another straw man.
That doesn’t mean that once a pedophile rapes and murders a child, then they are exempt from the legal consequences. John Couey’s sentencing was legal, lest you forget. He’s getting what he deserved, you are not going to convince me otherwise.
How about the first time he molested a child, we threw away the key?? That would have certainly saved Jessica. How about, he can’t live next to door to a child? That would have certainly given Jessica a fighting chance.
Yes, we need stricter laws and now with the advent of the internet, we need to monitor those that exploit and promote child abuse. A lot is already being done in that regard, but pedophiles are also finding support groups that help them rationalize their behavior instead of actually being put in perspective for what it really is — completely wrong. We are also grossly underfunded in tracking these pedophiles.
You are not going to convince me that John Couey doesn’t deserve the harshest legal penalty imposed, in this case the death penalty. If I were you, I would give up, because I’m never, ever, ever going to agree with he should be spared. Never. It’s not gonna happen.
16. Petulant Pixie said:
August 25, 2007 @ 8:43 pm | Quote
Actually, I’m not trying to change your mind. I’m just answering your question at the end of your blog entry–
{So, I must ask, how can anyone oppose the death penalty in a cases such as these? How??}
You asked, I answered.
17. Jessica said:
August 25, 2007 @ 9:21 pm | Quote
Guess you’ve got a point there!
18. julymom said:
August 26, 2007 @ 9:12 am | Quote
I’ve followed this exchange with interest. I’m not sure where I stand on the issue, because some part of me believes he does NOT deserve to live, but I have a hard time *wanting* someone dead. That being said though, if it were *my* child he did this to, would I feel the same way? I’d probably ask the judge to let me kill him. PP, if he had done this to one of your girls, would you feel the same? Would you still think he doesn’t deserve to die? Would you be okay knowing every day that your child was gone(and died in a horrific manner), but the man responsible for it was living in relative comfort (yeah, yeah, it’s prison, but his basic needs are still being met and he’s ALIVE)?
19. Petulant Pixie said:
August 26, 2007 @ 9:48 am | Quote
Well, if it happened to MY kid, then honestly I wouldn’t be rational. That’s why we have a court system though, and the system is SUPPOSED to lock these people up forever (it’s not the system’s fault, it’s the running of the system that’s faulty and needs to be fixed). Our laws don’t allow for vigilantes.
Plus, I don’t think that having the man executed would relieve the pain. I think it might actually make it worse, that you’d think it would help that he’s dead and gone, but it really doesn’t do anything to relieve that. Plus, then you’d have his blood on your hands. I’d probably feel like I’d be doing more if I just kept visible and kept presenting my child’s case year after year to be sure he never was released from prison. I think a lifetime in prison is actually more difficult than letting him die, anyway.
20. Jessica said:
August 26, 2007 @ 10:21 am | Quote
Actually, my step-mother’s mother has to do this every few years — appeal to the parole committee to keep her husbands killer in jail and it is absolutely horrible for her. It makes her relive the pain and agnony and opens the wounds all over again. I wouldn’t wish that upon my worst enemy. It’s certainly not a rewarding experience for her and the fear and anxiety of knowing that each time she does it, not only is she reliving the nightmare over and over, but knowing that the murderer may get out in spite of her efforts — it’s not fun, in fact it tortures her every few years when that hearing for parole is due.
21. Petulant Pixie said:
August 26, 2007 @ 10:31 am | Quote
I’d imagine though, that if it were my child that the wounds would never heal anyway. I’d imagine that if my kid had gone through something as horrific as described in the blog, that I’d go a little insane and make this sole cause my reason to keep living myself. I can’t imagine ever moving on from something like that.
22. Jessica said:
August 26, 2007 @ 11:53 am | Quote
I’m much different than you then, because I would not want to have to explain over and over why someone who murdered and raped my child should stay in prison. Of course, you never get over it, but that doesn’t mean that one would enjoy reliving it or continually fighting for justice.
23. julymom said:
August 26, 2007 @ 12:22 pm | Quote
I agree with this. Having to live through it to start with and then again at trial would be more than enough. I can’t imagine having to go over it every few years to make sure the person who did it couldn’t get out of prison.
I don’t see this, as execution is court ordered. It is legal, whether people like it or not. How would that be blood on anyone else’s hands?
24. Petulant Pixie said:
August 26, 2007 @ 7:27 pm | Quote
If I wanted someone dead and they were killed, I would feel like their blood is on my hands. Legal or not. Maybe that’s just me.
25. Jessica said:
August 27, 2007 @ 9:25 am | Quote
Well, then, by all means — feel free to mourn the loss of a life when John Couey gets executed.
Me? Not so much. Pass it on. I won’t lose any sleep.
26. Kristy said:
August 27, 2007 @ 12:30 pm | Quote
Yeah, the death penalty is the one chink in my liberal armor. He does deserve to die. It doesn’t even matter to me if it deters anyone else from brutally raping and murdering little girls, or if it does nothing about all the sick fuckers still out there. And yes, it’s a relief to know that this one man won’t hurt anyone else. But it’s not even about that. This man, this one inhuman monster, has allowed himself to do something so unspeakably horrible that he simply should not be allowed to live anymore. He had his shot at life, he used it to cause pain and unbearable suffering to an innocent, and now he’s fucking DONE.
27. Jessica said:
August 27, 2007 @ 12:55 pm | Quote
Wow. That’s the last thing I would ever imagine you to say.
Huh.
Well, on this topic, we’re in agreement.
28. Kristy said:
August 27, 2007 @ 6:20 pm | Quote
Yeah, I think there should be a campaign convincing people that, as Dennis Miller suggested, if you are thinking obsessively about hurting a child, you need to kill yourself. It’s the right thing to do.