This is why spanking shouldn’t be outlawed…
Posted
January 23, 2007 at
3:01 pm by
Jessica
Although the heroic and presumably, hailed decision to kick a brat kid and her parents off a plane will surely end in some public apologies and lame protest, I have to say, I think this decisive move warrants a thumbs up in my book.
The toddlers parents speak to the Associated Press as published in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:
“We weren’t given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything,” Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.
The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter’s seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother’s lap. The request was denied
She was removed because “she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn’t get in her seat” during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.
The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.
They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.
No doubt, kids will have mental melt-downs here and there, but if this kid was hitting her parents, then she was just being an asshole and it’s not fair to the rest of the passengers to put their lives on hold for someone else’s kid, although I’m sure the parents felt entitled to it.
Personally, I’m sick and tired of the little 3-foot Princes and Princesses who are taught that their lives are more important than anybody else’s.
Tags: AirTran-Airways, Gerry-Kulesza, Lulie-Kulesza, plane, toddler |
30 Responses to “This is why spanking shouldn’t be outlawed…”
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1. Petulant Pixie said:
January 23, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Well, spanking aside, these parents could and should have just stuffed that child into the seat and made her stay there. If they could not (and I’ve seen footage out the wazoo about this today with them saying they couldn’t), then they are irresponsible, negligent parents. Number one parenting priority is to keep your child from danger and if you are totally unable to control your child, then you cannot possibly do that.
2. Kim said:
January 23, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
I think its wonderful someone finally stood up to parents of kids who are out of control. That a was very kind thing the airline did for the rest of their passengers. Being a breeder myself, I think it should happen more. Yes, there are bad days, but that is your familys problem, not the rest of the worlds!
3. Patti said:
January 24, 2007 @ 3:48 pm
I am soooo glad the dad threatened to “never fly AirTran again” so the rest of us don’t have to put up with his brat. All you teachers out there beware in about 2 years when Princess Elly hits your classrooms! If she’s calling the shots at 3 imagine what she will be like to deal with. The parents are so lame and pathetic and have done this child a grave disservice.
4. Jim said:
January 24, 2007 @ 4:20 pm
This one is about safety - pure and simple. It is not taking the crown victoria to the park.
If your little tantrum bucket can’t comply with rules, then they are a major safety risk - PERIOD.
I fly about 50K miles per year and just don’t understand. If your kid is not old enough (or stable enough) to fly, then leave them at home. They put everyone else’s lives at risk.
It angers me to see the arrogance of parents who think their kid trumps everything, including safety and the law.
If you can’t control your spawn, then perhaps you should not reproduce?
Kudos to the flight crew for making the call and standing up for the safety rules. BAD on ATA for the irresponsible damage control. These people shouldn’t get a DIME!!
Jim
5. Heather said:
January 24, 2007 @ 6:27 pm
I am the morther of 3 children (12,4,1). I fly 10-12 times a year with my 3 children. All of my children have been stubborn at an early age and knew exactly how to get out of an airline seatbelt quite quickly but that did not stop me.
A 5-point harness carseat fits quite well in an Airline seat and will hold most children under the age of 3 in place allowing the flight to take off on time and most children will quiet down within a few moments.
My hat goes off to AirTran!!!! A tough job well done!!
6. Charles Wertheimer said:
January 24, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
If they wouldn’t drag the little brat out from under the seat, how could they hold her?
7. Adelaide Killian said:
January 24, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
Hats off to this airline for standing up to this whimpy parents and their out-of-control brat. Surely no one would believe that this child has never never grabbed attention by this means. I say shape up and be parents to this poor child, not servants!
8. Jill said:
January 24, 2007 @ 7:51 pm
Well, they certainly need to get control of her now, but I don’t know how hitting her is the solution. There are others forms of disicpline, and I know plenty of kids that are not hit and are not Princesses. I think hitting kids is disgusting. I dfon’t hit anyone else because I don’t like thier behavior, I would not do so to my child.
Of course they should not have let her stay on the plane.
9. Kim said:
January 24, 2007 @ 11:11 pm
I was happy to hear the airline had the family leave the plane. Considering the “reported” circumstances, it “seems” the best choice was made.
However, I am incredibly saddened to see the anger, the rage, the disrespect and the judgment of the majority of the commenter’s on this site.
Who are we to judge a family whom we know absolutely nothing about?
Does this girl have a disorder? Was she terribly frightened? Was she just spoiled?
Since none of us live in this family’s home how could we possibly know that? Of course, we can’t. To assume that we can or do know anything at all about this family is arrogant and egotistical.
Wishing you all peace in your heart and soul.
10. sarah said:
January 25, 2007 @ 1:59 am
This story did strike a major nerve with me. A screaming kid let’s face it, is very annoying. But I know far too well what these parents are going through. last November we flew from Dallas to Las Vegas for thanksgiving. at the time my two boys were 22 months and 3 months old. my infant slept the entire trip all four flights. and my older child was also very good except one. he was sick of it and it showed. he wasn’t tantruming thank goodness but he was whiney. and the man sitting in front of us was the one who was completely out of control. he was a very tall, large man might I add and at one point stood up and screamed in my 22 month’s old face “hey, shut up!” my 3 month old was strapped onto me sleeping but I stood up to meet him and said, hey you need to calm down right now, we’re doing everything we can, (and we were) as my husband started to speak he yelled at him “you better not say another word” and my husband said don’t talk to me or my family like that. and I again told him to calm down with my finger pointed at him, and he yelled at me “you better get your finger out of my face” and “if you don’t sit down right now, I’m going to smash your face in!” yeah, that is a direct quote. only then did a flight attendant come and ask him to sit down. I was so scared I started bawling and wanted to move but he stood up and moved himself and his completely embarrassed wife and kids up to the front of the plane. I was so upset and all of the people around us were so kind and reassuring that he was a maniac and even wanted to make statements with the airlines that he was out of control. the cops met us at the gate but nothing happened and the flight attendants seemed so unsympathetic to us. I was so scared and still am. I never want to travel with kids again. Am I just not supposed to see my family for years and years until all my children are 5 and older? driving from Dallas takes way too long. So, my opinion is hey, if you can’t handle a noisy kid then BUY AN iPOD!!!! if I was rich I’d start an airline called Family Flights that had noise proof headphones and catered to families flying with children!
11. Petulant Pixie said:
January 25, 2007 @ 9:36 am
Sarah, you shouldn’t try to handle outraged people by yourself, especially with children. You should just buzz the flight attendant the first time someone gets scary–when he stood up and shouted at your toddler. Then the whole thing is the airline’s issue.
There is a difference between a person getting irritated with a noisy child and a child who will not get into her seat so the plane can take off.
In all the interviews I saw with the parents, they never mentioned at all any developmental or emotional issue that the child had. They just went on and on about how they couldn’t make her do what she didn’t want to do.
12. lauren said:
January 25, 2007 @ 10:46 am
People should not have to buy IPOD’s to cover up your childs noise. That is one self centered statement. The interviews I have seen on TV, the child is all over the place. They have not control over her, and should be foreced into parenting skills.
13. kcc said:
January 25, 2007 @ 12:52 pm
Was the flight late because of the child? There’s no official article I’ve found that says so. It just says the plane was late. Was the staff in a rush? Did the staff offer to help? I’ve found no reports that said the staff offered to help - - only that they sniped at the parents?
Were the parents given a warning about what was about to happen? From all the different newsworthy articles I’ve read (about 5), it seems that they were A) told to get the child under control; B) then told that holding her in her lap was not an option; C) told to get off the plane (without any warning that such a situation was impending).
It seems that AirTran undermined their ability to get the situation under control by not telling them the rules up front - - rather, the staff seemed to make them up as they went along (and I KNOW I’ve seen 3 and 4 year olds allowed to sit on parents laps/without tickets on a variety of airlines), and not telling them that they were candidates for removal. The parents thought they had time to do things gently, when AirTran had apparently no intention of giving them that time - - apparently because AirTran was running behind.
When we pay for a ticket, there is an understanding that we will be given a little assistance. Maybe you’re short and you have that big carry-on you need to get overhead. Maybe you have a weak bladder, or other incontinence, and you’ll be allowed a quick trip to the potty before take-off. You expect a little assistance because you’re a customer. This family represented THREE customers, who - - as far as I can tell from any direct reporting - - weren’t given any assistance at all, and were not dealt with directly about the situation they facing.
On top of it, to be made to stay behind without a luggage or car seat for 24 hours is just plain punitive and mean-spirited. That rule is made for drunkards, not 3 year olds.
As for people who don’t like the sound of the screaming baby… I’d like you to be deplaned the next time you get on board with a cold - - sound is one thing - - we’re all adults, and I think we’re all hardy enough to survive a little noise and annoyance, but I don’t need to bring your death-germs home to my ailing grandparents.
14. Kim said:
January 25, 2007 @ 1:44 pm
Thank you for sharing your insight kcc. Well said
15. sarah said:
January 25, 2007 @ 2:20 pm
I really do appreciate your view, and I am not trying to be contentious. The iPOD thing was something I said a little sarcastically. Who wants to hear kids cry? It is really hard to have small children at times, especially in public. I really am trying so hard to be a good mom and raise considerate, respectful children. This situation presented a major dilemma for me, one that I still don’t know quite how to handle. For the record, the flight to vegas was a connecting one. The drive would be a 4 day 52 hour round trip drive to reno. quite long considering vacation time is limited. And we’d want to spend as much time as possible with family, especially after making such a long drive. My husband and I both have very large families so them flying to see us is unreasonable. I cannot 100% guarantee my children “be seen and not heard” I don’t know any parent who can. If it were possible, we’d live by family and not have to worry about it, but unfortunately, our circumstance do not allow it. My dad may die soon from health issues and I seriously have contemplated what I would do if we had to travel again with children and driving wasn’t a possibility because of time constraints. Believe it or not but I never want my kids to cry in public. I hate it! it’s really hard.
I agree that there are kids who are completly out of control. One episode of super nanny is all it takes. And that girl on the plane may have been one of them. But there are still parents out there who are raising respectful children, I just hope that people can realize that. And not cringe at the sight of all children.
16. sarah said:
January 25, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
and palutant pixie, you are right! I should have just called a flight attendent over at the first sign of his rage. I guess it was just a natual instinct to protect my family. he really could have wasted me and my husband and our kids. …well said kcc
17. kcmc said:
January 25, 2007 @ 4:17 pm
Sarah - - When my son came out of surgery, his cry was the most blessed sound in the world.
As for the adults who can’t stand my child’s crying, I try to ignore them. We’ll teach our son empathy as is age approp., but there’s only so much that’s approp at 1, 2 or 3 yrs. Someday, that complaining person will come in with a wretched flu I’ll have to bend over backwards not to get, or they’ll get drunk one night and spew on the sidewalk where I walk with my stroller, or they’ll have a loud party that wakes my son up, or they’ll become my elderly neighbor that needs my son to help them up and down stairs and with shopping, but wants to stay in their home because it’s all they’ve ever known. It’s just living and being too young or too old or too sick or too careless. We have to make a good faith effort to be tolerant of each other, if we are to reasonably expect tolarance from others in the future when - - not if, when - - we have a bad day, or get sick, or become infirm.
SO, of course someone can come board with a cold, and sit next to me and my screaming baby (who, now 2yrs, has been flying several times yearly since 4 mos old, already has earned free plane tix, and is *usually* wonderful on airplanes). Me and the sick people, odiferous people, loud people, the people with too much luggage, and the screaming babies will sit in the back and keep each other entertained.
As for the family on this flight, forget just tolerance, it sounds like a little basic customer service protocol would have given them enough info to know that there was no more time and that their next option was ejection. Just sounds like AirTran did a bad job communicating and doesn’t have a sophisticated-enough protocol for ejecting passengers. I know that - - without a public statement that their protocol failed the situation, or wasn’t followed - - they’ve lost any chance at my money. Even traveling without a baby, who’s to say they won’t come up with another reason - - such as a random misunderstanding - - for ejecting me without any warning?
Sorry my posts are so long - - no time to edit - - better go before I’m blocked
- kcc.
18. Jim said:
January 26, 2007 @ 12:47 am
Kim, this was a simple matter of safety. If the child is unrestrained and the aircraft were, say, to experience wake turbulance on takeoff, her head could be crushed on the ceiling almost instantaneously. She could severly hurt or kill another passenger being tossed like a ragdoll around the cabin. The same concept goes for any number of emergency situations (aborted takeoff, cabin fire, hard landing, hot coffee, etc…).
Sadly, if such an incident were to happen and the aircrew failed to correct the seat belt issue, you can bet mommy and daddy would be suing everyone in sight.
This is about safety. The rules are there to protect everyone, not to be draconian. If a child (or adult) cannot comply, then they don’t belong in the aircraft. There is no middle ground here. I support the aircrew 100% in making a stern call. Knowing ATA caved to this makes me very wary - to the point I really don’t want to fly with them again.
Given the choice between seeing a couple of egos bruised, or seeing a child’s brains slattered all over the cabin? No middle ground… It’s simply safety and the law…
19. Dane said:
January 26, 2007 @ 8:30 am
And now the “whimpy” parents will sue.
They should suck it up, and understand they need to learn to control their child. I side with AirTran.. I hope they let it go to court so the Jury can tell the famility to F - Off
20. Kim said:
January 26, 2007 @ 11:10 am
Jim,
I am not sure if you were responding to my email or the other Kim.
If you were responding to my post, please understand that IF everything occurred how it has been portrayed (which again we of course have no way of knowing..the news can be very biased) then I DO agree with the airlines decision 100%.
I do not think it matters what the child’s issue was per se, as far as the behavior goes, it doesn’t matter. I am with you 100%. Any child who is unable to control herself for whatever reason is a safety issue. I am probably one of the most safety conscious people around (probably overboard even).
My concern, is that people on this site made comments such as “If you can not control your spawn, perhaps you should not reproduce”? There could be other reasons that they could not have controlled their child, that no one is aware of. Just because parents have a really bad day with a child, who, for whatever reason, chose to act up, is no reason to make judgment calls on whether human beings should reproduce or not.
I was extremely disturbed by the hateful comments some commenters chose to place on here, on a family they had exposure to for 5 minutes through the news? Again, I found it to be arrogant and egotistal.
I found the anger which was used (not the agreeing or disagreeing..everyone has a right to their opinion) to judge a family no one had ever even met to be FAR MORE disturbing than a 3 year old having a temper tantrum on an airplane.
Once again, I am with the safety of the passengers and the airline and if everything happened as stated I DO agree with the airlines decision.
I am saddened by the rage I saw here on the postings
Once again, peace and love in everyone’s heart and soul. I wish you the best
21. Steph said:
January 26, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
A crying child is one thing. It happens. Especially the really young ones with air pressure issues when their ears don’t clear. But an unruly child is another issue. We are talking about a child who the parents did not have control of.
It doesn’t matter if the plane is late or not. Why do I, as a passenger, have to sacrifice my time for another passenger who is unable to get control over their child.
And why should the aircrew be responsible for helping them. What did you expect the aircrew to do. Drag the child from under the seat. I can see the headlines now…Aircrew reprimanded for dragging child on airplane.
I do agree that the aircrew could have given some warning, telling the parents that if they could not get their child in the seat with the seat belt, they would have to be removed, would have been appropriate. But ultimately I think ATA shouldn’t have had to pay.
What are they going to do on their next ATA flight when the child again won’t get into the seat?
22. mainstreammom said:
January 26, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
Well said Jim!!!!!! ITA with every word you wrote. And that is precisely why I have yet to fly to Disney World (or any place else for that matter) with my children (three and five). We are just now planning a trip when they are four and six.
Hey everyone has family emergencies and times when flying with young children is unavoidable. Like someone else said, young children will cry. It happens. I don’t think crying was the issue here. It was the blatant refusal on the part of the parents to pick the kid the fuck off the ground, hold her in her seat, buckle her in, and let her know that if she refused to sit then she’s be brought off the plane. As a parent, *I* would be the one saying that we’d get off if my child was not able to be controlled!
MM
23. Pamela G. Burkhalter said:
February 2, 2007 @ 9:55 pm
Elly Kulesza’s mother Julie challenged, “If there are parents who say their child doesn’t have a tantrum, I want to meet them.” Come to Macon, Georgia, Ms. Kulesza, and meet my family. My name is Pam Burkhalter, and I can introduce you to quite a few parents whose children don’t have tantrums. My daughter and son, aged 26 & 20, are tantrum-free. My two step-daughters, ages 25 & 12, are equally tantrum-free. Oh, my three nephews, ages 12, 9 & 7, have never had a tantrum either. Gosh, my other niece and nephew, ages 24 & 20, managed to avoid tantrums as well. Children who are allowed to indulge in tantrums are the product of wishy-washy parents who are too timid to BE parents.
Had I been trapped on that plane with Elly, who is more than likely an extremely intelligent child, I would have applauded when she and her parents were asked to de-plane.
Sincerely,
Pamela G. Burkhalter
Macon, Georgia
24. Jill said:
February 2, 2007 @ 10:06 pm
Wow Pam, none of those kids had tantrums, not when they were 2, 3 or 4 years old? Impressive, kinda…actually, kinda scary. Tantrums are not a nice thing, or a fun thing…and good parenting can, often, minimize them. But they are age appropriate, and lots of kids who are well parented still have them, and I have never met a child who has not had at least 1 tantrum-even though my own child and most of the kids in my family are quite well-behaved, and none of us are wishy washy parents. I, personally, am somewhat scared to think of what kind of parents manage to completely obliberate tantrums in their children. Of course, I actually don’t believe you…since you are talking about kids that are now adults, or kids that are not your own.
25. Gretchen said:
February 4, 2007 @ 5:41 pm
The father said he’d never fly AirTran again. I think he should require to tell everyone when he’s flying again with the brat and his ding-bat wife so that everyone can avoid that airine. And I agree with Pam, I would have given a friggin’ standing ovating when little Elly go off the plane.
26. Kim said:
February 4, 2007 @ 5:48 pm
Oh my goodness?!!! Nine children in your family NEVER had a tantrum? Please….give us a break
Once again, may you find true peace within, love for yourself and for others!
27. lynn said:
February 6, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
Dear Ms. Head in the clouds,
Even the best kids with the best parents might have a tantrum from time to time. It’s completely normal and I can almost guarantee you that all of those lovely people you mentioned had a few tantrums in their lifetimes. And look at what wonderful people they’ve all become!
28. Paul Lorimer said:
February 15, 2007 @ 8:53 pm
Remember of temper tantrums of Coach Bob Knight and many “adults” who cannot control themselves.
29. Pedophile Expert said:
February 16, 2007 @ 8:56 am
I am reminded of story that circulated years ago about a mother alone with a 4 year old boy who was yelling screaming and crying to no end. Mom tried and tried but he just would not stop and all the people in the airport were being set on edge by his antics.
An older almost grandfatherly gentleman nearby noticed and watched and tried to offer a sympathetic nod to the mother because she was afterall trying to calm the child.
Finally, he approached them both greeting her, “Well, you certainly have your work ahead of you today don’t you?” She nods with a demure smile. “And you, young man, you have much to do today as well.” as he addressed the boy who while still crying and screaming at least turned to look at the gentleman.
Seeing that his mere presence was not going to quiet the boy, he reached down and picked the child up into his arms - not even a hint of requesting permission from the mother or the boy for such an action. The boy was startled by this a bit but still continued. The man gently turned and put his lips a few inches from the boy’s ear and could be seen whispering to the boy.
While in the man’s arms, the young master’s face become calm as an angel’s. Crying, fussing, screaming and shouting no more. A few more seconds up there in the stratified air cradled at 6 feet of altitude was all that was needed to be sure of the boy’s new attitude.
And with that, the boy was placed back on the ground, at which point he walked over the chair next to his mother, took a seat and didn’t say a thing except to ask for his favorite toy - the one he had thrown all the way across the aisle such that it had almost hit another passenger.
Quite impressed the mother offer a gracious thank you to the man. Everyone enjoyed the rest of their wait in peace. The little boy latter even giggled while playing.
When the airline called for parents with children to board first, the mother turned to the man and offered thanks again, “You certain have a gift dealing with children, by the way, how did you get my son to behave, what *did* you say to him?”
With a little wink the gentleman said with a dry wit, “Very simply, I told him that if he did not quiet down and do what you ask from now on, that I would show up and rip off both of ears.”
30. paul said:
September 9, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
wait a minute - I just read on old posting on the 3 year old being removed from the plane - and I just read on another new press - the 3 year old was in a row in front of the mother - AIRTRAN - AIRSCAM - I think we are all missing a point here…… did airtran try to make them all fly in separate seats… here is why I ask…
I just flew with airtran last week - with my wife and 3 kids - 7,4 & 2 - Airtran had us all in separate rows. I dont know how you all feel about that - but I thought is sucked. To make it even better - after we boarded the plane I asked the steward if he could help. He called the agent to help - she came on board, locked at me and said - “you either take your seats or we will remove you from the plane”. The steward was so disturbed by her actions he asked for my tickets - so he could have her written up. I think there is more to the story on the 3 year old and her family than we are being told….
Are airlines forcing families into unmanageable situations?