Pit bulls and children do not mix
Posted
May 31, 2006 at
9:33 am by
Jessica
People own pit bulls to use as a weapon and if you are part of the few that doesn’t own a pit bull for a weapon, then know you’re amongst the majority of trash that does. Nobody thinks, “Gee, a pit bull would be a GREAT family dog.” A pug is a great family dog, a pit bull is not. In fact, why not just go out and get your family a bear or a tiger? And if you’re fortunate enough to live in an area where one of your neighbors owns one of these weapons of mass destruction, then do yourself a favor and move (your property value isn’t going to soar with pit bulls running around anyway) or get your village to sign an ordinance banning these animals. Children deserve better. People deserve better.
From the website dogbitelaw.com, here are some stats on dogs that kill:
As stated above, there are two problems that have been reported as though there is only a single problem, namely there are canine homicides (i.e., dog bite related human fatalities) and the dog bite epidemic. The dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:
“Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996….[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.” (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)
Other breeds were also responsible for homicides, but to a much lesser extent. A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities,” Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.)
Owners of such dogs should be aware that if their dogs attack a person, the attacks may be scrutinized by law enforcement. The reason is that irresponsible behavior with or toward a dog whose breed is known to bite has caused a rising and unacceptable injury and death toll, which authorities are determined to stem.
“Irresponsible behavior” is defined differently from place to place. In California, for example, it can be a felony for a person to possess a dog trained to fight, attack or kill that, because of the owner’s lack of ordinary care, bites two people or seriously injures one person. (See Felony prosecution of attack dog owners.)
In different parts of the United States at the current time, there are a number of parents who are on trial for manslaughter because their dogs have killed their children. In these cases, the prosecutors have taken the position that the parents behaved irresponsibly because they left their children in the company of dogs most likely to bite.
There is an 8 out of 10 chance that a biting dog is male. (Humane Society of the United States.)
And here is the tragic story, brought to us by WTHR-Indianapolis, that tells a true account of just one out of thousands of tragedies that involve a child mamed or killed by a vicious dog each year. As a society, we fight for safer streets, safer schools, safer immunizations, safer foods, environment, homes, cars and so on, we need to keep ban dogs that are most likely to kill a child. People cannot be trusted to keep your children safe from their dogs. If you think the kind of person that chains up a pit bull or a rottweiler in their yard is of a level of sophistication that they keep innocent people in mind, then your are sorely mistaken.
Indianapolis - A toddler’s life is on the line after a pit bull attack. The victim’s family wants the owner held accountable.
It happened Friday afternoon in the 13-hundred block of South Belmont near Lambert Street on the city’s southwest side.
Police say the animal took control of the toddler and wouldn’t let go. His young victim’s blood was still on it’s snout while teams at Riley Hospital worked to save 2-year-old Amaia Hess.“She sustained serious injury to her face and it appears she may have been bitten on other parts of her body too. One of her eyes is missing at this point. The other eye is seriously injured,” said Sgt. Mathew Mount of the Indianapolis Police Department.
The little girl was in the stroller with her mother. A man opened his door and the dog, named Ozzie, ran out straight for the little girl.
“I seen the baby in the dogs mouth and the dog shaking the baby like a rag doll, just shaking, shaking, shaking,” said a witness.
Amay’s great uncle calls her a sweet loving child facing a long struggle.
“One eye was completely tore out but the pupils were good so they can do some reconstruction on that,” said the uncle. “The doctors said that there’s many many surgeries there to do.”
It’s the second pit bull biting at the house in a year.
Tags: dog-attacks, dogs, family-dogs, fighting-dogs, pets, pit-bull-terriers, pit-bulls, Social Issues |
374 Responses to “Pit bulls and children do not mix”
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211. Brittany said:
January 28, 2008 @ 1:51 pm
Jessica, I have 2 pittbulls and they love kids and everyone…you probaly never owned one so I really don’t think you should be putting them down like that they are awesome dogs…it’s all on how theyre owner raises them to be duh! well this is what i think and you and whoever else needs to quit putting these innocent breeds down!! because a PUG can just as well hurt someone as a pitt bull can!
212. Ryan c said:
February 15, 2008 @ 12:42 pm
my pit bull snorz realy loud and she has gas sometimes lol there jaws do not lock and they are wonderful pets as soon as i can get my kennel set up im going to breed them and sell them to good homes and breed them some more if you want to share pics of pits mail me
radiomanradiocb@yahoo.com
213. colette said:
February 17, 2008 @ 12:26 pm
I personally have had rotts for the past 20 years. I have been a responsible pet owner. Our town is now trying to out law rotts,pits and Dobermans. Personally i have been bit three times in my life and each time it was by a dog that was less than 5lbs. I do not agree with banning any breed. you must make owners responsible no matter what the breed. I had to give up my rott 5 years ago because she was older and my kids (3 of them) were older children too and she was just fine with them but i had a late in life baby and when she was able to walk in a walker my rott would growl at her. It was not her fault though she was not use to someone crawling pulling on her. I found a lovely older couple that took her because i did not want anything to happen but i would have done that if it was any kind of dog that had that reaction. Because of how our town has become we now own a wiemer. But i feel it very wrong to ban a breed. Funny thing here that happend in Highland Indiana. One of our finest was outside with our k-9 dog. A door to door sales man did not see the dog out side and walked up to the door when the dog, with the officer outside with him, charged the salesman and bit him in the butt. The officer is and was suppose to have control over his dog at all times, but he did not. Had that been anyone else we would have had our dog put to sleep along with a hefty fine. Absolutely NOTHING happend to the officer whom did not have control. As it was brought up in a town meeting should we ban german shepards too? It all comes down to owners. When we were ask if our dog bites no matter whether it was one of our rotts or our wiem i tell them i don’t know. They are just like children. You can raise them but they dont always act they way you want. And if the dog feels afraid his natural reaction is to protect himself our us. So no time have i ever felt 100% confident so i never put ourselves in that kind of situation. *just my two cents* The dogs i was bitten by was 2 chiauha,(spelling?) and one black and white boxer.
214. melanie said:
March 5, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
i have a pitbull. ihave children. my dog is one of the best dogs ever. i also have a little dog that i am more nervous about biting. every dog is an animal. you always have to beaware of what everyone is doing including the children. my pitbull is very loving. i have never had a issue of aggression with people. unfortutly there our nasty people in this world thats why those attacks happen it is a tradgic for little children to grt hurt. but its the people who own them. pitbulls who are raised right our good with kids. there pain tolorence is high so when kids do pull there skin ur get curious about there eyes and poke they can stand it. i do understand how comments do come around. you have to be extra responsible with them they are powerful. love life
215. Mara said:
March 11, 2008 @ 8:22 pm
Weapons of Mass Destruction? You should probably Google that!!!
Jessica, or anyone who hasn’t any exposure to the PitBull,
I am the proud mommy of a 1 year old female Red Nose PitBull who is currently sleeping beside me. She is so very loving, and such a “licky face”. The next door neighbor has an infant that just giggles away when my Nelly is near him. She is great with other dogs, and she has never had a complaint in the neighborhood or the dog parks. As a matter of fact, one of the neighbors had bandaged her face due to her OWN Jack Russell biting her, who also tries to attack Nelly every time.
Here’s something you can research, Jessica: Many of the dog attacks that are seen of or heard of in the media, ARE NOT PITBULLS, BUT ARE SAID TO BE!!! Next time, why don’t you contact that media group and ask them if they can confirm the breed of the animal.
Please see http://www.badrap.org
and http://www.maxtheshelterdog.com/kidsforpits.html
STOP BEING SUCH A DUMB ASS!
216. Lyndsey said:
March 21, 2008 @ 2:09 am
I think this is one of the most close-minded things I have ever read. I have a 3 year old pit/rottie mix. she is a certified pet therapy dog. I take her to work, to hospitals, and she gives the patients love and kisses. They adore her and are so happy when I bring her to see them. If she was a “weapon of mass destruction” as you so ignorantly put it, there would be no way I would let her out of the house, let alone take her to a hospital with a bunch of strangers.
What I find ridiculous, is that there are so many stories in the media about “vicious pit bull attacks” etc etc. and that will be front page news, but what you will never read again, is the article a week or two later, stating that the “vicious pit bull” was actually identified to be a lab mix, or some other breed of dog. the general population has not a clue about what breed a dog is, unless it is a dog they own. I was walking my dog (brindle, 60 lbs) around, and a couple was walking towards me, and the man said, “oh look honey, its a weimarainer.” Last time I saw a weimarainer, they were all gray and about twice the size of my dog.
dogs that attack, are often provoked, often not spayed or neutered (it makes a huge difference people), and are many times “outside dogs” and spend their days in a dog run in the yard, or chained up, with inadequate food, and very little or no socialization with humans or other dogs. if these very same dogs are spayed/neutered, socialized, and given adequate nutrition, i’m sure they would be terrific pets, very loving and very loyal. i encourage you to open your mind and your heart (something I’m sure you will have trouble with) and check out the website http://www.badrap.org, to educate yourself on the TRUTH about pit bulls, rather than just buying into the lies that the media sells to you.
217. Jannhere said:
March 24, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Anna pressi is a well known rachel ray stalker and intenet stalker in gerenal google ‘preesi’ its page after page of this woman trolling on message boards I would not pay any mind to anything she says.
218. sarah said:
March 24, 2008 @ 7:56 pm
Im lucky enough to run one of few Pit Bull rescues in my area.
The thing this poster failed to realize is the section of that article on dogbitlaw that says “pit bull type dog.” Stress the TYPE part. This means ANY bulldog breed - american bulldogs, pit bulls, am staffs, cain corsos, mastifs, all mixes thereof….the list goes on. Damn near all of your large breed dogs, unless full blooded, are going to fit in this catagory of Pit TYPE dog.
In other words, they may make up half the deadly bites, but they also make up half the population of dogs large enough to do deadly damage!
The number of deaths due to actual PIT BULLS, last year, was 3.
Ask any local animal control… the vast majority of the dogs that come into the AC due to biting a human, are LABS.
In the past year alone I have rescued over 130 pit bulls. The ONLY dog that has ever bit me, was in fact a black lab.
Stereotyping a dog because of breed is like stereotyping all black people, or all women, or watever group you choose.
Not saying genes have no part in temperment, but the majority of the temperment comes from training, socialization, and EXERCISE.
In other words, the owners are the real issues.
219. jill bryant said:
March 24, 2008 @ 10:00 pm
Wow - a pit rescue!!!! You are the best!!!
BTW, at my pit’s doggie day care - the dog kicked out the most - Labs (who I also love BTW). They are too toy possessive. Lab bit off the face of the French woman. But - that would be blamed on the owner, now, wouldn’t it?
220. Kelly said:
March 28, 2008 @ 1:59 am
There is never good press for Pitbulls. While I was on vacation one Easter, I boarded my female pit at a popular training camp. A Golden Retriever was digging a hole under the fence and when the trainer tried to gain control over the situation, the Retriever attacked his arm and leg. My PITBULL body-slammed the dog off the trainer and held it by the throat, saving the trainer’s life. When they examined the Retriever later, the skin wasn’t even broken. My Pit just held the other dog down with her strength, not her teeth!! I wrote a letter to a local newspaper and SURPRISE–it was never published!! There is such an warped vision of this intelligent, loyal, loving breed. When I was a kid, Dobies were evil, when my brother was young it was German Shepherds. It’s the same, toxic general attitude people of color (any color) have had to endure. Ignorance is not an excuse.
221. Allison J said:
March 28, 2008 @ 9:27 am
[quote comment="151269"]There is never good press for Pitbulls. While I was on vacation one Easter, I boarded my female pit at a popular training camp. A Golden Retriever was digging a hole under the fence and when the trainer tried to gain control over the situation, the Retriever attacked his arm and leg. My PITBULL body-slammed the dog off the trainer and held it by the throat, saving the trainer’s life. When they examined the Retriever later, the skin wasn’t even broken. My Pit just held the other dog down with her strength, not her teeth!! I wrote a letter to a local newspaper and SURPRISE–it was never published!! There is such an warped vision of this intelligent, loyal, loving breed. When I was a kid, Dobies were evil, when my brother was young it was German Shepherds. It’s the same, toxic general attitude people of color (any color) have had to endure. Ignorance is not an excuse.[/quote]
I’m with you Kelly. I have a boxer who is extremely loving, gentle and PROTECTIVE (especially of children). And his best friend is Layla, a sweet Pitbull from down the street. It is sad that people want to bash on an entire breed of dog.
There was recently a case in Western New York about a Pit would had sodomized a 2 year old. Turns of the OWNERS of the dog (and parents to the child) were drug dealers who made this poor animal have sex with people for drugs. THEN THE PARENTS (or maybe just the mother — my memories are fuzzy) MADE THE DOG RAPE THE CHILD!!!
Thankfully the child is ok — and I pray will never have any recollection of his parents or what was done to him. The parents are being prosecuted (last I heard), and the severely abused dog was rescued — after 100s (maybe 1000s) of people contacted our local SPCA requesting to take in this poor animal.
When Pits, or any dog, are vicious and cruel, you can almost always point the finger to a vicious and cruel owner.
222. jack said:
April 1, 2008 @ 5:11 am
Get real.
Some of you pit bull owners have really no idea about your breed.
(1) Pit bulls were only bred to be aggressive against other dogs. What a load of baloney. They were also bred to fight against bears, bulls and yeah MONKEYS. They used to fight them against monkeys and the pits were very agressive.
The most famous pit bull fighting dog in American the famous Champion Chinaman that was very very manny. (manny is a term used by dog fighters to describe a man agressive dog). Chinaman was never culled but bred by dog fighters. Chinaman blood is in almost every pit bull in the USA today.
Pits are great dogs i used to own 18 (enough said).
They should not be pets for normal people however and should not be left with kids EVER.
Listen to this advice or not. I will have pits if they become illegal or not. Makes no difference to me. However I care about kids and warn anyone now to be very wary of un-leashed pit bulls or your own pet. Pitbulls have violence in their blood, and if you don’t think so then fine risk your own kids and not other people’s kids. You aint seen nothing if you think pits are gentle dogs, all the time. They are Jekyl and Hydes that enjoy nothing more than fighting. Maybe your one does not but we are talking AVERAGES and on AVERAGE THEY ARE MORE VIOLENT AGAINST ANY ADVERSARY HUMAN OR ANIMAL. Take it or leave it your risk.
adios
YIS
jack
223. jack said:
April 2, 2008 @ 5:04 am
Many “pit bull” advocates claim pits have only been bred to be vicious against other animals and “people” however it should be noted that pit bulls were previously used in sick human baiting contests. Man versus dog contests were well documented in Britain.
The “pit bulls” were very human aggressive and always tried to kill their opponent with no encouragement required!
Yep they are loyal dogs and have a very sweet side to them, but that makes them even more dangerous. They HAVE BEEN USED FOR MAN VERSUS DOG FIGHTS.!
FACT.
224. britt rujder said:
April 2, 2008 @ 9:00 am
Who writes this garbage? What an extraodinarily ignorant column on pit bulls. Starting off with a generalization about pit bull owners, implying that I’m trash for owning a dog that, before evil and/or ignorant people became involved, was called literally “a nursemaid dog.”
Then - quoting from a lawyer’s site who makes all his money suing people who own dogs. Uh huh - he’s all about the dogs….ha! And I love stats - look up Disraeli quotes if you want to see how useful stats are to those who wield them outside of baseball.
For information, try “trash” Cesar Milan who is just introducing his newest lead dog to the pack because of his superior temperament - Junior, a pit bull puppy who will replace Daddy, a older and wonderful pit dog leader. Or better yet, try the ASPCA - an organization who knows a lot more about animals than a lawyer and the “authority” who wrote this column. http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pets_pitbull
I make my living off the internet and love it but this is an example of its biggest flaw - giving a megaphone to the babblings of a non-authority.
Take your ignorant column DOWN. Oh - wait —- this is one of your traffic drivers, isn’t it? That’s right - make your money off the blood of this innocent breed. (LITERALLY - what do you think you are doing, here? Just another excuse for the evil to treat this DOG like the unprotected victim it is including throwing them off roofs, lighting them on fire, shooting them with nail guns - do you want more examples?) Michael Vick - MOVE over. Here is a new form of exploitation of this (for us who ACTUALLY know the breed) sweet, clownlike beloved member of our household.
225. jack said:
April 2, 2008 @ 3:39 pm
Britt get yourself some stats education. It is irrelevant what your dog is like. We are talking populations. Lets talk stats.
Pit bull types and Rottweilers cause more deaths by dog bites than any other breeds. FACT.
Pit bulls are generally known as “pit bulls” or “bull dawgs” and not “nurse maid” dogs as they were and are the most chosen “breed” for use in the dog pit.
The general public, dog owning and non dog owning wants pit bulls banned from the cities to protect their pets and kids. At the moment that seems like a sensible move based on HARD STATISTICS.
Blame the deed and not the breed ? Um well actually both are responsible. There was a guy on discovery channel saying that his lions were so tame that even if they got out of the compound they probably would not attack anyone, because he has trained them that way. Sound familiar ? We don’t want pit bulls in the cities just as we don’t want hyenas or lions being kept as pets. IF you want a pit bull then move to the countryside and don’t keep it in a highly built up city.
Now if you want be very radical we could always cull bad owners and gang bangers instead ! Ha now i’d vote for that.
226. Allison J said:
April 2, 2008 @ 3:54 pm
I respect what a tough issue this is — black and white, with very little gray.
As I said earlier, I love my gentle and playful boxer, as well as the three very sweet, loving pit bulls that I know.
With that said, as an owner of a dog the responsibility falls on me, and me alone, to police my dog and ensure that those who come into contact with him are safe.
We have a fenced yard — and when my dog is outside I check on him constantly. He is walked on a leash. When someone comes to the door either I or my husband make sure we have a hold on him — because he is very protective.
When people ask to pet him I oblige — but I kneel next to my dog, hold his leash, and would pull him back if I ever sensed that he might become aggressive (which has never happened).
Pits are VERY strong — lets be honest about that. But I do not want to see them banned — just owners who take very preventative measures to ensure the safety of their pets and those who come into contact with them.
227. britt rujder said:
April 3, 2008 @ 4:10 am
Okay - if you want to talk the truth in stats, Jack, tell me 1) how many deaths are we talking about. 2) How many of those deaths were from APBTs. I do not have a Presa Canario, nor do I have a Rottweiler, an American Bulldog or a pit bull mix. What other breed of dog gets grouped?
And then - how come I don’t hear you frothing at the mouth about Rotties? Why don’t you go insane over those, too?
They are the most chosen in the dog pit? What validity does that have to anything? Right there we are talking evil disgusting human being. Do you think they wouldn’t fight Dobermans, Akitas, German Shepherds if they couldn’t fight pits? Whattheh@ll comment is that: The animals I prefer to beat are the ones that have the highest tolerance for pain and are the most game therefore they are bad?
And pit bulls are not lions. They are dogs. Dogs. Dogs. A pit bull is a dog. Yes, a strong dog. You want a happy pit - you give it one hour intense exercise every single day.
I would be thrilled to cull bad owners and gang bangers. I was walking my pit Daisy along a strip mall when these two shady looking guys backed off. Normally, I would’ve let that type of person think Daisy is scary but out of habit I said she’s very sweet. One of them said “What you do is you drop her in a deep hole that gets direct sun. You leave her there for three days with no food or water. You’ll make a fighter out of her yet.” If I could’ve arrested them on the spot, I would’ve. But, the law wants to give them a pass and punish their victim instead. A dog. They want to punish the dog.
And - BTW, as a responsible owner I put Daisy through beginner and intermediate training, she earned an AKC Canine Good Citizen award, she was Temperment Tested, she took agility training, she has been assertiveness tested at the two daycares she attends and I always get a report on her. I walk her two times a day - in the morning - two miles, after work 1.5. She has three neighbors she has playdates with - one has three dogs, one has two and the one with only one dog has a pit bull/Bassett Hound mix - the sweetest dog possible. She is not protective of me at all and would let anyone mug me if they gave her a tiny shred of cheese or hot dog for which she would like their feet and beat them with her tail.
BTW, I was so pleased to see how much you read up on the links I included, Jack. I see how you are a great seeker of truth.
228. jack said:
April 3, 2008 @ 8:21 am
Ok Britt bite on this
quote
In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:
“Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996….[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.” (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)
End quote
The only defense against this is to say that most of the observations were not pit bulls but pit bull crosses. Not a good defense and a denial strategy. Yes some mistaken identities I agree, but even if it were a case of 50% mistaken identity (unlikely) then it would still point to a breed specific problem.
As for your story about the punks claiming they know how to train a fighting dog, well they haven’t a clue. Top fighting dogs do not fight well if they are subjected to beating and abuse. They fight well when positively reinforced with rewards. However it appears that most people do not understand (including you) the term “game dog”. The term game dog does not refer to viciousness after abuse, it refers to a dog that IS NOT HARD TO ENCOURAGE TO FIGHT in fact a dog that you would have to strongly encourage NOT TO FIGHT. It doesn’t meant they are a nasty growling snapping dog, but like a game rooster, enjoys fighting. Not all pit bulls are game, even on a top “dog man’s” yard they will cull most of their dogs, only keeping the ones that were “natural born fighters”. Blood hounds have been bred to follow scent, terriers to go to ground, Alsations to guard territory, and pits bulls were bred to “fight” NOW THAT IS THE TRUTH.
However you sound like a very nice person who loves this breed of dog. If most pit owners were like you, I admit that although there would still be some attacks it would be a lot less than now, and probably of the media radar.
It is however dangerous for lovers of the breed other than ‘dog men” to deny the history and genetics of these dogs. To do that would be irresponsible and lead to false confidence.
p.s.
some advice
I’d keep your dog far away from the people you mentioned above as if they think she is docile they may try to steal her!
229. DB said:
April 3, 2008 @ 9:40 am
[quote comment="152415"]
With that said, as an owner of a dog the responsibility falls on me, and me alone, to police my dog and ensure that those who come into contact with him are safe.[/quote]
As a parent, I would not feel comfortable ASSUMING pit bull owners have my children’s or any children’s best interest in mind. There are too many pit bull owners that use their dogs for protection and/or train them to fight or are plainly abusive, so there’s no way I’d just take a gamble and assume every pit bull owner has control of their dog or has raised them to be social and frienly or that their dog is not going to attack my children.
It’s my responsiblity to make sure that doesn’t happen by keeping my neighborhood safe (from fighting dogs) and assuming every pit bull dog is aggressive. I’m not going to apologize for taking the better safe than sorry approach to my kids. I’m also not going to apologize for not trusting any dog, especially pit bulls or their owners. That’s what any good parent SHOULD DO!!
230. Mike said:
April 3, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
Bull baiting began around the 13 century and ended in the 19th (around 1830’s ). Some say it started even earlier with bull running. The butcher would run a bull with dogs in pursuit from field to butcher shop as a form of entertainment for the town. Owners would do all kinds of cruel things to their dogs which were designed to show off the dogs tenacity and courage. The bull itself was staked to a rope or chain sometimes in a ring sometimes not and the dogs were sent at it in order to grab the bull by the nose and pin it to the ground. There are lots of stories about pits being badly hurt by the bull but still coming back to fight. Tales of dogs with their stomachs ripped open by the bulls horns with intestines dragging on the ground, still going after the bull.
One documented case had an owner cut the legs off his older female just so the crowd could watch her continue to hold on to the bull til
the dog died of blood loss. This was done to get a higher price for her last litter of pups.
Pit Bulls were designed for combat that fact is unmistakeable but not for work against humans. That was never the intent, these dogs always had to be around people. A hard dog in the pit that went after handlers , judge or spectator wouldn’t be around for long jack and you know thats true. No matter how mannish Chinamen was if he was biting people he would have never got the chance to be a champion. Who the hell would have trusted him in the ring.
Any trainer worth his salt would never consider the average pit bull for things like Shutzhund or French Ring, the breed is just not set up for it. Malinois…you bet, the GSD yep but not the Pit Bull.
If youve had 18 then you know as well as I that the average pit bull litter has puppies that run from dead game to soft. I think the main problems with the pit today are
1. irresponsible ownership. Too many people shouldnt even own a dog, never mind a pit bull.
phoney tough guys, drug dealers and morons of various races and ethnicity.
2. Overpopulation. When I see some of the breeders websites it makes me sick,these people have perverted the breed. Massive Heads ? Super Short ? Jacked ? Do they have a clue what a real dog is supposed to look like ? Sire is over 100 lbs. What? Are you kidding me?
The pictures are even more crazy. Dogs with giant heads, overly wide chests with bowed front legs. Thick tails and cow hocked back legs.
Some of the dogs these knuckleheads use for foundation I would castrate on the spot.
231. Pitt said:
April 3, 2008 @ 6:47 pm
Hopefully your ignorance is not passed on to your unlucky children who have to deal with your short-mindedness for the rest of their lives.
And, I am going to blame your breeder.
232. jack said:
April 3, 2008 @ 9:04 pm
Yes i agree almost entirely with your post. That is why I wouldn’t care if the pit bull was banned from cities, as it would help save the breed. Meaning, keeping the pit bull out of the hands of both knuckle heads and many pet owners; therefore reducing the incentive and profit for irresponsible breeders to keep churning out “non game bred manny pits”..
I don’t have any problems with most “dog men” it is the irresponsible breeders that are pumping these dogs out for the puppy trade and drug dealers. Most of these deaths according to the statistics were in the home ie pets. I’ve never heard of people being killed on “dog fighting yards” by pit bulls. It is nearly always BY PETS.
It is bizarre that it is the pet owners claiming that the dog fighters are causing the problem. It seems by the stats that it is the pit bulls being kept by pet owners that treat them like pampered spoilt children and refuse to admit the potential damage that an uncontrolled “fighting breed”; can do if not controlled properly.
p.s.
Ch chinaman was man aggressive and was also the greatest producer in American history thanks to Tom Garner for pumping them out (well no thanks to Tom Garner).
http://sporting-dog.com/select-pages/chinamanstory.html
Here we have some records of man versus dog pit contests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_baiting
They can be aggressive against people whether or not this was the intention. Pit bulls were also used frequently against bears and monkeys.
233. Mike said:
April 4, 2008 @ 6:12 pm
Interesting stories about man baiting. Ive honestly never heard of any such thing except in the ancient Roman days. I know they used to match pits against anything and everything prior to dog fighting becoming the norm. Bulls being the most common because of their availability.
Its a bit of a problem because the dog fighters are what gave the breed it’s charachteristics and yet how does the pit bull maintain that high level of gameness without some kind of actual combat. A spring pole, bite suit and treadmill can only get you so far.
Hog hunting is the closest thing that I can think of but knowing the liberal media it’s my fear that this will soon be outlawed and the pit bull will share the same fate as the German Shephered. Take a good look at a GSD from the 1950’s and compare it with one now. They don’t even look like the same animal, severly angulated topline and incorrect back legs.
Theyve bred for looks over function and in my opinion the same fate is due for the Pit Bull.
It’s already happening now if you know what to look for. A huge male in the old days might have a top weight of 65 to 70 pounds, now its well over 100 with some breeders. I know old dog men who wouldnt touch a dog over 50 pounds.
This is what should outrage lovers of the breed
not weather or not they are safe with children.
And to answer the question it’s no, theyre not safe with kids. No dog of any breed is safe with a child. Dogs and children require training and supervision, no matter how sweet a dog maybe it’s still a dog. I love my pit to death but not enough to leave him unsupervised with my kids.
234. Jack said:
April 4, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
[quote comment="153033"]Interesting stories about man baiting. Ive honestly never heard of any such thing except in the ancient Roman days. I know they used to match pits against anything and everything prior to dog fighting becoming the norm. Bulls being the most common because of their availability.
Its a bit of a problem because the dog fighters are what gave the breed it’s characteristics and yet how does the pit bull maintain that high level of gameness without some kind of actual combat. A spring pole, bite suit and treadmill can only get you so far.
Hog hunting is the closest thing that I can think of but knowing the liberal media it’s my fear that this will soon be outlawed and the pit bull will share the same fate as the German Shephered. Take a good look at a GSD from the 1950’s and compare it with one now. They don’t even look like the same animal, severly angulated topline and incorrect back legs.
Theyve bred for looks over function and in my opinion the same fate is due for the Pit Bull.
It’s already happening now if you know what to look for. A huge male in the old days might have a top weight of 65 to 70 pounds, now its well over 100 with some breeders. I know old dog men who wouldn’t touch a dog over 50 pounds.
This is what should outrage lovers of the breed
not weather or not they are safe with children.
And to answer the question it’s no, they’re not safe with kids. No dog of any breed is safe with a child. Dogs and children require training and supervision, no matter how sweet a dog maybe it’s still a dog. I love my pit to death but not enough to leave him unsupervised with my kids.[/quote]
That’s a great reply.
I really do love pit bulls for their loyalty and spirit. Unfortunately the lady who wrote that article is not a pit lover. But she and all the other non-pit lovers DO HAVE A RIGHT not to be intimidated by punks with pits, and I think the venom thrown at her by many posters is uncalled for. Also pit lovers just shouting and screaming the reply “you people are ignorant” is of no help at all. Honesty on all sides would really help. As a pit lover I can see that perhaps very heavy regulation of dogs in highly populated areas may be the way forward (Un-American however). As for your comment about pits and kids; well you are spot on when you say no dogs and kids should be left unsupervised. I agree that is why many pet pit bull owners rile me up with comments such as “he’s so gentle he would never harm anyone”. Well maybe, but it’s not worth the risk. As the stats suggest most of the killings have been by pet pits. Pit bull owners have to start tackling this problem and accepting how powerful the dogs can be. If we don’t do something then people like the writer of this article are going to do something.
p.s.
What you said about pit dog weight is VERY true. Old timers generally didn’t like dogs over 40 pounds max. They usually liked around 30 pounds.
Now the pet farms are churning out 80 plus pounds pit bulls !!! For what purpose exactly ? How can we maintain the breed without game testing. Good analogy with GSD’s.
and if you want to see the kind of owner the author of the article is talking about then check this out. There are many victims here including the dog that was put to sleep. The owner in the video is the kind of person the author is talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjjcmYwnMiA
Another site for interesting info on pit bull types and history
http://www.game-bred.com
235. britt rujder said:
April 6, 2008 @ 2:40 am
I am very familiar with this….this didn’t answer what I asked….
“Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996….[T]he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.” (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.)
End quote
Like I said, Jack, if you can give me a stat about an APBT - then, let’s talk. I have read dogbitelaw. I have read everything I could find on pit bulls. I found Daisy. I did not want a pit bull - I did not want any dog over 25 pounds because it meant I had to move (which I did.) I could not find a home for Daisy, I found out there was no shelter that wouldn’t put her down in three days so — I read everything I could and set about isolating her from man, woman, child and dog because I had been brainwashed by the media. Instead, I found out I had a dog that loved other dogs (not typical but not an aberration, either), who was INCREDIBLE with children (she rolls on her back and gives them belly) and loves humans. I also met many pit owners who were as nice as me (thank you for the compliment), I’ve found plenty of sites that are wonderful to pits (I’ve pointed out a couple like http://www.spbr.org and lawdogsusa.com) and also found that attitudes from people like Jessica (who was lazy and didn’t do her research and is just quoting dogbitelaw, herself) are helping to doom these dogs as much as any dog fighting scum. I am not stupid about pits. I know they are strong dogs, I know they are not the dog for everyone and I know some men are so incredibly pathetic that they think having a tough dog makes them manly which, to me, just shows insecurity and weakness and the desire to show off to other men. If they wanted women to like them, they would show love and sweetness to their dogs - women are CRAZY for guys with babies and/or that love their dogs.
And - yes, I know to keep my pup far from scum like I met. After the one guy said that I was shaking so hard with anger I let loose and told him if I ever heard of a guy doing something like that to a dog I would take a gun and hunt him down like the scum he was. He shrunk down - I’m pretty tall and I play tennis and workout a lot so I wasn’t intimidated by the lowlife druggie scum (okay - it was a very public place, too
thank you for caring about Daisy though.
236. britt rujder said:
April 6, 2008 @ 3:02 am
[quote comment="153033"]Interesting stories about man baiting. Ive honestly never heard of any such thing except in the ancient Roman days. I know they used to match pits against anything and everything prior to dog fighting becoming the norm. Bulls being the most common because of their availability.
Its a bit of a problem because the dog fighters are what gave the breed it’s charachteristics and yet how does the pit bull maintain that high level of gameness without some kind of actual combat. A spring pole, bite suit and treadmill can only get you so far.
Hog hunting is the closest thing that I can think of but knowing the liberal media it’s my fear that this will soon be outlawed and the pit bull will share the same fate as the German Shephered. Take a good look at a GSD from the 1950’s and compare it with one now. They don’t even look like the same animal, severly angulated topline and incorrect back legs.
Theyve bred for looks over function and in my opinion the same fate is due for the Pit Bull.
It’s already happening now if you know what to look for. A huge male in the old days might have a top weight of 65 to 70 pounds, now its well over 100 with some breeders. I know old dog men who wouldnt touch a dog over 50 pounds.
This is what should outrage lovers of the breed
not weather or not they are safe with children.
And to answer the question it’s no, theyre not safe with kids. No dog of any breed is safe with a child. Dogs and children require training and supervision, no matter how sweet a dog maybe it’s still a dog. I love my pit to death but not enough to leave him unsupervised with my kids.[/quote]
I wouldn’t leave your dog alone with your kids either. Not with your need to work your dog’s gameness. Give me a break…….
If you want to say dogs are being overbred - yep - known fact. If you want to give pits work, then look to http://www.workingpitbull.com/activities.htm (not hog hunting or whatever you’re afraid the “liberal media” is going to stop you from —- no wonder - sounds pretty cruel and bloodthirsty to me…no wonder you’re afraid someone is going to stop you.)
BTW - Daisy is game - I have seen her do agility and swimming - not because they are natural to pits - because I asked her. What you call gameness, I call heart and you can see it when they are facing something difficult to them. You don’t need to pit them against pigs, or bulls, or men or other dogs to bring that out in a dog. I’ve never tried her on the spring pole but I swear she’d pull 1000 pounds if I asked her to. Her joy in pleasing me is palpable (Although, I’m sure she’d feel that way about anyone who rescued her off the streets.)
237. Jack said:
April 6, 2008 @ 6:04 am
Anyway I don’t want to discuss the morality of immorality of dog fighting, hogging and baitng here, as this is not the issue.
Ok our main sticking point is this. You call the “pit bull” the “APBT” American pit bull terrier. I call these kind of dogs “bulldawgs”. Pit bull dogs came from England and they were then bred for a long time in the USA and subsequently the dog got called the “American pit bull terrier”; being generally bigger than the English pit dogs.
So the argument, if the pit bull terrier is actually a breed is an interesting one. I’ve had ‘pit bulls” that look like common mutts.
Until we conclude this then we cannot continue with interpreting the “stats” right ?
Anyway I can understand how a great pet owner like you gets angry at the writer of the article. However the way she describes some pit bull owners in many cases is spot on. Like the owner “lady” (stretch to call her that) in the you tube video.
I don’t want pit bulls banned but I think facing realities on both sides of the argument is the way forward.
You’re a great owner!
238. Jack said:
April 6, 2008 @ 7:30 am
Also i may be wrong here (very possible) but when I last heard the APBT was not a recognized breed by either the American or English kennel clubs.
The Staffordshire and English bull terriers of course are. This makes it even the more complicated.
239. Mike said:
April 7, 2008 @ 11:18 am
Britt I have no need to work my dog nor do I advocate dog fighting or hog hunting but I am a realist. My dog is sweet as pie and loves everyone including my children but I always supervise their play together because he is after all just an animal. And i also think that the reason he is such a great dog with people has a bit to do with his lines fighting past.
Courage, tenacity, heart, gameness,loyalty, confidence are just a few of Pits great traits.
And to say that none of these are the direct result of their fighting past is delusional.
You don’t think that daisy’s great attitude has anything to do with the dogs that came before her? Of course it did. Trace her bloodline far enough and you’ll find a fighter in there I gaurantee it. Again Im no dog fighting advocate but Im posing the very important question how do we keep these types
of positive charachteristics in a working type dog without work? Responsible Dog owners get to enjoy the byproduct of the APBT having a violent past, we get a confident, stable, loyal dog thats not so quick to bite out of fear or pain. Great with kids and of even temperment.
This needs to be maintained and my question is how ? Most people have a distorted view of what a proper APBT should looke like,
Overly wide chests,bowed front legs, huge head,
cow hocked back legs. Ive seen dogs that look like hound dogs advertised as APBT. Their look
is already changing and without some type of work so will it’s attitude. This is my fear.
Ive been around these dogs all my life and it’s a damm shame what’s happening to them.
240. Helen said:
April 7, 2008 @ 11:48 pm
Mike you should be a realist.
Dog fighting is cruel so face up to it ok.
Your post is wrong and highly inappropriate for this site. Please stick to the point and not try and promote hog hunting or dog fighting through the back door. You sound like a wannabe dog fighter. Well get real dog fighting is sick and disgusting.
Miket the character of the pit bull has nothing to do with its past, it is environmental that is all. Comprendo ?
And Jack or whatever your name is, your are just sick an obviously a professional dog fighter. Gross that you are so blatant about it too! Unbelievable!!